removing noise from LP's and cassettes --easily

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tiggerlou
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:23 pm

removing noise from LP's and cassettes --easily

Post by tiggerlou » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:40 pm

I've been getting ready to digitize a large collection of LP's and cassettes. There are posts on this forum that talk about noise reduction, in a tone that sounds very "pro-audio" --and frankly very time consuming. I'm not trying to turn these recordings into anything perfect. I truly don't have the time to manually slice out every pop and click as some of these writers recommend. I just want something that will do a decent job at improving the original recordings as I digitize them.

Quite a few of them recommend using software other than Goldwave for removing pops and clicks from LP's and cassettes. I've seen recommendations for Wave Repair, DePopper, Spin it Again. Are these necessarily better than what I can do with Goldwave? (I already have Goldwave).

If I do use Goldwave, is there an easy way to remove typical noise from cassettes or LP's, and that will produce decent results?

And would I use it differently on cassettes as opposed to LP's?

thanks!

thanks!

donrandall
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Post by donrandall » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:14 pm

I have had the best results from DePopper. It is not perfect - I doubt that any software is - but it is effective.

Goldwave is an editing application with some very nice processing capabilities (in my opinion, Goldwave is the best dollar value available for it's intended purpose) but editing is it's reason for being, not vinyl or tape restoration. I have tried Sony Sound Forge, which is considerably more expensive, and it is not anything to get excited about. I also have and have tried another program called DC6, which they claim can do miracles as an audio forensics program - and again, it is nothing to get excited about.

There may be some very good programs that outperform DePopper, but ask yourself how much you are willing to spend. Unless your clicking and popping are quite extreme, it will probably do a nice job for ya.

tiggerlou
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removing noise from LP's and cassettes --easily

Post by tiggerlou » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:47 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked up DePopper and it doesn't mention another feature that I'm looking for: automatic track detection. Both Spin It Again and Wave Repair do that as well as remove noise, but apparently DePopper only does the latter.

Anybody else have any opinion on them?

DewDude420
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Post by DewDude420 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:05 am

having done a lot of vinyl restorations..i can tell you there's no easy and quick method that will give you any kind of decent result.

the difference between goldwave and other programs for editing out pops lies in it's detection and repair methods. For starters....when goldwave locates a click, it does a simple interpolation to repair it...in some cases this is fine...but it can produce some undesired results. I use the ClickFix plugin for adobe audition..which attempts to recreate a portion of the wave by examining the waveform around the click...and most programs do a similar method of blending. goldwave will not remove the crackling you'll hear in vinyl recordings on the fade out and silent parts..but the auto-click will pick up some of the larger more offensive pops. i at this point could post about 30 screenshots and maybe 10 sample files...seriously...it tends to get THAT detailed.

as far as noise reduction...well, there's no real safe generic setting i've found...you're pretty much got to customize your noise print each time you change recording/source/whatever. i at times find myself creating a noise print profile for each track-change on an LP that has silence...however i also cheat and only really apply NR where i feel i need it. since the majority of a track is above my noise floor, i don't need to apply processing on it...only during track transistions..and even then the real key is don't overdo it. you can't shoot for no noise because the processing required would leave a LOT of FFT flanging/garbage/annoying noise behind...so be prepared to live with a little bit of background noise...and more often than not...you'll have more than you'll really want...but sometimes removing just 10 or 15db of noise cleanly can help. for your vinyl content....the best clean vinyl transfers i've heard usually have a noise floor aound -50 db...so, don't shoot for something like -90..anything that might be hiding in there or extremely close to the treshold will get garbled...it's something you can blow through quickly if you want...but if you want to get it done right, it takes a bit of time...but I will say Goldwave's noise reduction function does a nice job IF you know how to pick your clipboard prins.

tiggerlou
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:23 pm

removing noise from LP's and cassettes --easily

Post by tiggerlou » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:24 am

Thanks. I do hear you on the value of doing the job right. As it happens, I'm just really pressed for time.

After I get these cassettes done, I have a couple hundred LP's to digitize. Meanwhile, I've got a file drawer of music scores to scan into my notation software. Gotta do that in order to make space in my office for a new keyboard. While all that is going on, I'm learning about home recording. Hardware, software, etc, etc. And yes, I'm still doing my daily thing as a working musician and music teacher. Whew!

*That's* why I want a quick and (hopefully not too) dirty route to digitizing these cassettes. Much as my anal nature might enjoy the tweaking, I really don't have the time to spend manicuring each and every track. I applaud all the folks who do treat every recording that carefully. I just don't have the luxury of that much time.

So, what do other people think? Which of these software gets your vote --and also does automatic track detection?

donrandall
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Post by donrandall » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:31 am

tiggerlou -

You might head over to this forum and see if anyone an offer any suggestions:

http://forum.recordingreview.com/

DewDude420
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Post by DewDude420 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:21 pm

as far as recording cassettes, i can offer this advice (i totally blanked earlier).

if you have a tape that was recorded with dolby noise reduction....then make sure you play it back into the computer using the dolby noise reduction..you're probably thinking why do that when i can do digital NR....well..Dolby B isn't that clean cut, it's actually a companding process that compresses the audio (in this case, the upper frequencies), and expends it back to the original dynamics upon playback..if you leave this off..sure, you get a boosted treble range...but you also lose the original dynamics.

i wouldn't bother doing NR on most cassettes unless they REALLY need it...

DougA
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Re: removing noise from LP's and cassettes --easily

Post by DougA » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:20 pm

tiggerlou wrote: I really don't have the time to spend manicuring each and every track.
Time being an issue, and you'll need a lot of it just to make the recordings, I'd suggest doing just that. Make the recording and save it. (DVD, whatever) as a data file, then later, when you have need to use any of these recordings, take the time to apply NR, pop/click removal, etc. You want to keep a master "original" anyway so you can start over if need be.
Doug

tiggerlou
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Post by tiggerlou » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:10 am

that makes sense, thanks!

Lipus
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Post by Lipus » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:36 pm

Just about clicks removal, I am using ClickRepair (http://www.maths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/index.html)by Brian Davies (Australia). It is INCREDIBLY efficient even on the worse vinyls and very easy to use. When transferring my Lps to Cds, I start with ClickRepair and finishes with Goldwave (background noise, equalization, etc.) Both software are for me the best ones in their fields.

Qman
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Post by Qman » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:42 pm

I have a bunch of LPs that I'm in the process of digitizing. Goldwave really does a very nice job of removing or minimizing all but the worst pops and clicks from an LP. I use a tolerance of 4000 on the pop/click filter and then use the "very light hiss/rumble removal" clickable selection available in the "noise reduction" function. At least to my elderly ears there seems to be no added distortion, but there is a tremendous reduction in pops, clicks, and "chaff" noise. That is what I call the high frequency noise sometimes heard on the lead-in prior to the music beginning and visible on the "scope".

DewDude420
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Post by DewDude420 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:25 pm

the "chaffing" you refer to is just a massive collection of small to medium amplitude clicks...i would know, i spent 20 minutes cleaning up a section manually.....by hand....

i'm not saying goldwave does a horrible job, it does a decent job at what it does...sample replacement code is outstandingly complex and complicated..the guys that code those code only those, chris does all of goldwave.

but, as i'm now a bit more on the professional side of things, i just prefer to use something else.

and, regardless of how old your ears are...as long as you haven't lost a whole lot of frequency from your hearing....you can compensate for things like a couple of decibil loss of sensitivity...the function of that section of the brain can play a huge part..i remember when an ear infection rendered one of my ears pretty much 98% deaf, when i did regain hearing nothing sounded right in it for a few days.

*yay, this is my 100th post!*

mh
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Post by mh » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:41 pm

There is no 100% perfect solution, from the old "can't unbake a cake" principle. All suggestions so far are good. The single most important thing is to not overdo it.

I'd just add that I've found a 40 Hz Steepness 5 highpass filter very useful too.

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