vinyl to CD - order of applying effects

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Gord
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Canada

vinyl to CD - order of applying effects

Post by Gord »

The "Turn vinyl LPs into CDs" article in the FAQs suggests that we do

Effects > Volume > Maximize

before applying the Pop/Click and Hiss filters, but I was under the impression that maximizing the volume was best saved for the last step (or second-last if you are going to compress to MP3 or similar). It seems to me that Pops and Clicks can be very loud, so if you remove them first then when you finally do maximize the volume you are doing so based on what you intend to keep rather than what you may later discard.

Is there a particular reason why maximizing the volume is mentioned first in that article? Or does the order not really matter all that much?
JackH
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by JackH »

I agree with you. While I do sometimes make level adjustments prior to pop/click removal, this is only to get the levels in a reasonable range. I do the final adjustment last, and I do not simply maximize to 0dB. Instead, I use "Match Volume" and try for a target of -17 to -18dB on typical tracks.
mh
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Post by mh »

I generally run multiple Maximize passes, normally after applying each effect or filter that can have an effect on the overall volume (normally highpass 20Hz steepness 20, then NR, then EQ - if required - then pop/click), and find that it works well. A final maximize is certainly always the last thing I do before saving, however.
DewDude420
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Post by DewDude420 »

One only needs to run maximize if you've sampled at 16-bit...then again...since Goldwave converts everything to 32-bit FP....this really isn't necessary. The maximize thing dates back to about 10 years ago before 24-bit or even 32-bit floating point processing was unheard of. Maximizing ensured that you'd retain all the detail because, if you drop below around -92dbFS, then your 16-bit signal can't really accurately reproduce a waveform. 24-bit FP solves this problem. You pretty much no longer need to maximize between every step...save it for LAST.

There are a bunch of schools of thought on the order to apply processing. The problem is that noise you'd remove with one effect can actually prevent another from working properly. Let me explain it a bit more.

For starters...these programs don't know WHAT exactly they're removing other than things that fit within a certin spectral response or things that have a similar matching waveform. So, if you build a noiseprint with a lot of popping and clicking, then you're going to have a bad noiseprint to remove from because each click basically makes the FFT values to haywire....a click has no real response, it's just a click. OTOH, sometimes some declickers are affected by large amounts of noise and having entirely too much surface noise will throw them off.

All one can do is play around. Find out what your declicker is doing and find the combo that works best. For my real professional/heavy-duty stuff, I boot up Audition and use 3 different pop/click and noise-removal methods and it's all about layers. Sometimes if you go full force at once, you'll ruin your audio...but sometimes if you play around with the order. Here's what I do.

I start off with a basic declick that's not very sensitive. This will capture the most offending clicks. Then I pull up another declicker and let it run over everything again with a bit more sensitivy. Generally when there's enough music over noise it's not a problem...most problems occur during track transistions.

generally what i'll do is take the section i want to use as a noiseprint and just hammer it with every declicking tool. It doesn't come out "clean", you can hear interpolation and replacement methods..but what it does do is even out the spectrum so we can get a more accurate print. I'll then gently denoise using this print...and listen for additonal crackling that may have been enhanced by the fact some noise was removed. I basically juggle back and forth between NR and declicking, doing each one in a random order till I find what I want. I then proceed with the rest of the restoration/mastering process.

There's honestly no right or wrong way to go about it...whatever order works for you, do it....anyone that will sit there and tell you "you HAVE to do declicking then noise then more declicking in that exact order" is crazy. There is no exact order, there's no magic setting...audio is an "organic" thing and every transfer will yield different results..sometimes you just gotta shake up your processing order to find it.
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