Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
I apologize if this question has already been answered, but I couldn't find anything specific here. I'm transferring my cassette collection to my PC via a handheld Sony cassette player/recorder (not a Walkman). The only output is a mono headphone jack, so I'm using a cable from that to the line-in port on my PC's onboard sound card. Therefore, no matter in which format I record, the file contains identical right and left tracks. Is there any way to convert the mono file to stereo (with different output to each track), or do I need to do this with some kind of hardware converter?
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
There are different ways to "stereoize" a mono file, but you won't get true stereo as a result. I learned a trick using Audacity which gives a pleasing effect.
I don't want to read the manual either, but, then, it isn't my problem, is it?
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
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WARNINGS:
Most simulated stereo effects don't sum to mono nicely. If you play "fake stereo" on a mono system, the sound is usually messed-up. (Probably not a big deal, since it's almost impossible to find mono systems these days.)
It's impossible to create true stereo from mono, because you can't "un mix" audio.... You can't put the guitar on the left and the piano on the right.
Besides creating a "sense" of stereo, you'll probably get some (possibly unwanted) other changes to the character of the sound.
Some people hate "fake stereo", especially commercial releases that were original released in mono, and then later "converted to stereo".
The advantage you have is you can keep the original mono file too. I made a 5.1 surround track* from a mono concert DVD. But since DVDs can have multiple soundtracks, I added an audio menu so the viewer can select the original mono audio or the 5.1 re-master/re-mix.
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OK... I've done it with complementary left & right EQ settings. For example, with the Graphic Equalizer, boost 150Hz, 1kHz, and 6000Hz, and cut 400Hz and 2400Hz in the left channel. Do the opposite in the right channel.
I like to leave the lowest & highest frequencies untouched... You need bass in both channels to take advantage of both woofers (and bass isn't directional anyway), and it might be too obvious (and not sound too good) if all the highs are coming from one side.
Decibels are tricky! For example, +3dB is twice the power. That's NOT offset by a -3dB cut (half the power) in the opposite channel... +3dB i's offset by -infinity in the opposite channel! (GoldWave's graphic equalizer doesn't go to -infinity, but -24dB is less than 1% of the power.... "close enough for audio".
)
After messing with the EQ, you'll probably need to normalize to bring the peaks down to 0dB to prevent clipping. (Maximize Volume for 0dB peaks).
Another (simpler) thing you can try is adding some delay to one channel. You can do this by using Edit -> Insert Silence to add some silence to the beginning of one channel. (First, go to Edit -> Channel to select one channel for editing.) Try about 10mS to start with. A short delay (maybe 1mS) won't be noticeable. A slightly longer delay should give you sense of "space"... That's what you are looking for. A longer delay will give the impression that the sound is coming from the non-delayed channel. As you get up to about 50mS or more you'll hear an actual echo.
...This probably won't apply to your project, but you can also pan left/right. That's the same as moving the left-right balance control when playing a mono file. (i.e. Most pro recordings are made with multiple "mono" tracks that are panned into position during mixing.) For my 5.1 channel DVD project I panned the applause between songs toward the rear (and mixed-in more applause "stolen" from different parts of the concert), and I panned talking between songs to the front-center channel.
As Tristan says, there are various "stereo simulation" plug-ins as well as "stereo widening" effects that might "so something" with mono. But I've never tried any of them.
* I made 6 mono files with GoldWave and then used a 3rd-party program to make 5.1 AC3 track which I imported into my DVD authoring program.
WARNINGS:
Most simulated stereo effects don't sum to mono nicely. If you play "fake stereo" on a mono system, the sound is usually messed-up. (Probably not a big deal, since it's almost impossible to find mono systems these days.)
It's impossible to create true stereo from mono, because you can't "un mix" audio.... You can't put the guitar on the left and the piano on the right.
Besides creating a "sense" of stereo, you'll probably get some (possibly unwanted) other changes to the character of the sound.
Some people hate "fake stereo", especially commercial releases that were original released in mono, and then later "converted to stereo".
The advantage you have is you can keep the original mono file too. I made a 5.1 surround track* from a mono concert DVD. But since DVDs can have multiple soundtracks, I added an audio menu so the viewer can select the original mono audio or the 5.1 re-master/re-mix.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK... I've done it with complementary left & right EQ settings. For example, with the Graphic Equalizer, boost 150Hz, 1kHz, and 6000Hz, and cut 400Hz and 2400Hz in the left channel. Do the opposite in the right channel.
I like to leave the lowest & highest frequencies untouched... You need bass in both channels to take advantage of both woofers (and bass isn't directional anyway), and it might be too obvious (and not sound too good) if all the highs are coming from one side.
Decibels are tricky! For example, +3dB is twice the power. That's NOT offset by a -3dB cut (half the power) in the opposite channel... +3dB i's offset by -infinity in the opposite channel! (GoldWave's graphic equalizer doesn't go to -infinity, but -24dB is less than 1% of the power.... "close enough for audio".
)After messing with the EQ, you'll probably need to normalize to bring the peaks down to 0dB to prevent clipping. (Maximize Volume for 0dB peaks).
Another (simpler) thing you can try is adding some delay to one channel. You can do this by using Edit -> Insert Silence to add some silence to the beginning of one channel. (First, go to Edit -> Channel to select one channel for editing.) Try about 10mS to start with. A short delay (maybe 1mS) won't be noticeable. A slightly longer delay should give you sense of "space"... That's what you are looking for. A longer delay will give the impression that the sound is coming from the non-delayed channel. As you get up to about 50mS or more you'll hear an actual echo.
...This probably won't apply to your project, but you can also pan left/right. That's the same as moving the left-right balance control when playing a mono file. (i.e. Most pro recordings are made with multiple "mono" tracks that are panned into position during mixing.) For my 5.1 channel DVD project I panned the applause between songs toward the rear (and mixed-in more applause "stolen" from different parts of the concert), and I panned talking between songs to the front-center channel.
As Tristan says, there are various "stereo simulation" plug-ins as well as "stereo widening" effects that might "so something" with mono. But I've never tried any of them.
* I made 6 mono files with GoldWave and then used a 3rd-party program to make 5.1 AC3 track which I imported into my DVD authoring program.
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
The trick I have in mind simply involves importing a mono track to a multitrack app to two channels, panning full left on the left channel, full right on the right channel, and delaying one track a maximum of 30 ms. It's very easy to do on Audacity, but can, no doubt, be done on other programs. The result is then exported to stereo. No plug-ins involved.
The result is not what I'd call real stereo, but it gives you two distinct channels, and an effect greater than pure mono.
Doug, if you're going to completely misrepresent what I say, could you at least do it at the beginning of your voluminous post next time? It would make it easier for me to respond. Thanks.
The result is not what I'd call real stereo, but it gives you two distinct channels, and an effect greater than pure mono.
Doug, if you're going to completely misrepresent what I say, could you at least do it at the beginning of your voluminous post next time? It would make it easier for me to respond. Thanks.
I don't want to read the manual either, but, then, it isn't my problem, is it?
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
Sorry Tristan, I DID misread your post... I thought you found a "Stereoize" effect for Audacity. 
Yeah, that was my 2nd suggestion... Insert a few milliseconds of silence to the beginning of one channel. And, that will give you a nasty comb filtering effect if you play it back on a mono system.and delaying one track a maximum of 30 ms. It's very easy to do on Audacity, but can, no doubt, be done on other programs.
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
This guy hasn't even been back to look at the responses, let alone acknowledge them. I love when that happens.
Edit: 26 Dec. They really need a little warning sign that says, "This guy asked the same question on 10 different forums and isn't coming back here." Then I wouldn't have to waste my time offering advice.
Edit: 26 Dec. They really need a little warning sign that says, "This guy asked the same question on 10 different forums and isn't coming back here." Then I wouldn't have to waste my time offering advice.
Last edited by Tristan on Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't want to read the manual either, but, then, it isn't my problem, is it?
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
Doug, I acknowledge that no technique is perfect for every playback situation. But I've tried my method on numerous files, and it works in stereo without fuss nor muss, though I personally prefer to keep tracks originally recorded in mono as unadulterated mono tracks. I'm not a big fan of effects.
I don't want to read the manual either, but, then, it isn't my problem, is it?
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
[quote="DougDbug"]Sorry Tristan, I DID misread your post... I thought you found a "Stereoize" effect for Audacity.
I found a Studio Talk Fabricating Plug-in *smile* ...
Seriously, while there have been other "stereo" mixes of this song, maybe with a portion of the many overdubs, this sync sounds pretty good. Amazed what escaped recording studios...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/i ... yquinn.mp3
I found a Studio Talk Fabricating Plug-in *smile* ...
Seriously, while there have been other "stereo" mixes of this song, maybe with a portion of the many overdubs, this sync sounds pretty good. Amazed what escaped recording studios...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/i ... yquinn.mp3
Re: Record in stereo from mono output cassette player?
Even though I may argue with a lot of people (over a lot of different music related issues), I'm the kind of person to extend my hand to shake, even say/write, "Thank You". That little Thank You seems to be diminishing in society.Tristan wrote:This guy hasn't even been back to look at the responses, let alone acknowledge them. I love when that happens.
Edit: 26 Dec. They really need a little warning sign that says, "This guy asked the same question on 10 different forums and isn't coming back here." Then I wouldn't have to waste my time offering advice.