About Stereo vs Mono ....

[bFlat]

This topic may be of interest to those of you thinking about recording and mixing music. When we produce music in the studio, we arrange it as if we're creating a stage performance. Literally. There's a left/right sound (stereo imaging) and then there's a front/back sound (depth reverb). In the mix, what we usually do is place the drums and bass in the center of the "stage" towards the back and split the lead instruments (guitar/sax/whatever) to the left or right as they would be on an actual stage. If there are any vocals, they're center and right up front. The idea is to give each instrument and vocals a distinct presence. Easier said than done.

At least, this should help you decide what to record in mono vs what to record in stereo. Our 'centered' drums are recorded in stereo. They pound away evenly through both speakers. Because we are looking for depth also, we place them at the back of the stage and as such, they'll have the most reverb. Even though we pump the bass through both speakers evenly, we record it in mono because many of the low end bass harmonics conflict with low end bass drum frequencies and can drown or null each other out. A mono signal allows us to compress and EQ it to get a distinctive sound cleanly separated from the drums.

Got a guitar/sax/flute/harmonica player? Where are they standing on the stage? Spread them out to the right and left of center and record them in mono so you can cleanly image them with only a 50% pan to the left or right. You don't want to do a hard 100% pan either way for technical reasons. (Don't know what those reasons are but they're right.) More than two lead instruments? Separate them by about 25% pans across the stage. You can't accomplish this if you recorded them in stereo. Also, they are closer to the front of the stage so the reverb treatment is less than the drum/bass reverb settings.

On another thread on this forum, there was some discussion about getting a stereo sound from a mono recording. There was some great input into the discussion. At the studio, we're believers in the enhancements that stereo imaging plugins/VST's can provide. Some of the more modern ones can separate and shove specific frequencies around through both speakers to create amazing spatial effects to a point where you wouldn't believe you're listening to a mono recording. For us, it's another tool in our arsenal.

Anyway, that's what we strive for in the studio. We're not always successful but that's our goal. The most important aspect of creating music is to record clean robust signals from the various instruments. Otherwise, it's garbage in/garbage out. Goldwave is your friend. I hope this helps someone thinking about creating some music. Best to you and yours in the new year.

Brian

http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com
http://www.Facebook.com/JazzHouseBlues

[tromeo]

Thanks Brian for that overview of Stereo vs Mono recording........short, straightforward and very practical!!

on the same subject.....I have been trying to record some live material using a very simple system with just two mics. This was meant to be a very simple dance training tape where the music was on one side and the dance calls were on the other - so that the calls could be panned out when no longer required.

One would think that this would (should?) be fairly straightforward..........but nooooo!!

I panned both mics to opposite sides, got the system recording and found that whatever is panned left is lost and whatever is panned centre or right comes up on both channels!!..??!!

I'm thinking my little mixer is screwing things up so plug headphones into it to check........no problem - left and right clearly different!

I even tried a different mixer just to confirm this and the problem was still there.

I then suspect I may have somehow "switched" some mono/stereo select in the GW system somehow so I try other audio recording software.........same thing happens!!

All I can guess now is that somehow the computer input jack or the computer itself is playing up............??

any other ideas??

[DougDbug]

on the same subject.....I have been trying to record some live material using a very simple system with just two mics. This was meant to be a very simple dance training tape where the music was on one side and the dance calls were on the other - so that the calls could be panned out when no longer required.

If you are using microphones, both mics are going to pick-up the sounds that are mixed in the room. With live stereo recording, you do get "leftish" and "rightish" signals and you can get a good "stereo image", but you don't get totally separate/isolated left & right channels.

Unless, the caller is speaking directly into one mic, and the other mic is in front of the speaker that the music is coming from, and the music sound system isn't being used by the caller. Then, you could get usable isolation, but you'd still get "leakage".

One would think that this would (should?) be fairly straightforward..........but nooooo!!

I panned both mics to opposite sides, got the system recording and found that whatever is panned left is lost and whatever is panned centre or right comes up on both channels!!..??!!

I don't know what's going on... The left & right shouldn't be accidently mixed.

This does seem like a hardware/mixer problem. How is your mixer connected to your computer? Are you plugged into the mic input on a laptop? The mic input on a soundcard/laptop is usually mono.You should be connected to the line-input on a regular soundcard, or you can use a mixer with a USB connection.

Do you have two mics plugged into the mixer? One panned left and one panned right? Is one mic supposed to be picking-up the caller, and the other supposed to be picking-up the music?

[DewDude420]

When we produce music in the studio, we arrange it as if we're creating a stage performance.

Except you can do more funky panning than you can live. When you're live; your drums are just in one potition. But in a studio recording where you've got 7 or 8 mics on your drums; you can pan each each one around to give your mix a bit extra depth.

You're also not accounting for some live-recording setups that use mid/side mic recording. One could argue that during a live performance, and I've been to a couple; you don't actually get and directional cues from the stage. Maybe if they're unmic'd you might get a little. But the further away from the stage you are; the less stereo image you get. Even then; most of the PA systems of a live venue are going to be putting out some kind of mono mix and completely ruin any kind of effect you might get. Fact is, the stereo effect is more pronounced in your home than it is at the venue.

You can simulate a really good live recording in studio by keeping your stage pans to a minimum and focusing more on the ambient reflections of the venue.

I panned both mics to opposite sides, got the system recording and found that whatever is panned left is lost and whatever is panned centre or right comes up on both channels!!..??!!

Something isn't right on the computer. Are you using the microphone input vs line-input? Do you have a dual-mode jack that has to be set to line-input?

[bFlat]

you've got 7 or 8 mics on your drums; you can pan each each one around to give your mix a bit extra depth.

Yes, great point. We have 6 on the drums and we pan out the toms and snare or other percussion. But the 'whole' drum sound is still coming from the 'center' and 'behind' the other instruments and vocals. That's when a stereo imaging plugin comes in handy. It works for us and our customers who don't want their commercial music too creative. Best to you.

Brian

[JackA]

This topic may be of interest to those of you thinking about recording and mixing music. When we produce music in the studio, we arrange it as if we're creating a stage performance. Literally. There's a left/right sound (stereo imaging) and then there's a front/back sound (depth reverb). In the mix, what we usually do is place the drums and bass in the center of the "stage" towards the back and split the lead instruments (guitar/sax/whatever) to the left or right as they would be on an actual stage. If there are any vocals, they're center and right up front. The idea is to give each instrument and vocals a distinct presence. Easier said than done.

At least, this should help you decide what to record in mono vs what to record in stereo. Our 'centered' drums are recorded in stereo. They pound away evenly through both speakers. Because we are looking for depth also, we place them at the back of the stage and as such, they'll have the most reverb. Even though we pump the bass through both speakers evenly, we record it in mono because many of the low end bass harmonics conflict with low end bass drum frequencies and can drown or null each other out. A mono signal allows us to compress and EQ it to get a distinctive sound cleanly separated from the drums.

Got a guitar/sax/flute/harmonica player? Where are they standing on the stage? Spread them out to the right and left of center and record them in mono so you can cleanly image them with only a 50% pan to the left or right. You don't want to do a hard 100% pan either way for technical reasons. (Don't know what those reasons are but they're right.) More than two lead instruments? Separate them by about 25% pans across the stage. You can't accomplish this if you recorded them in stereo. Also, they are closer to the front of the stage so the reverb treatment is less than the drum/bass reverb settings.

On another thread on this forum, there was some discussion about getting a stereo sound from a mono recording. There was some great input into the discussion. At the studio, we're believers in the enhancements that stereo imaging plugins/VST's can provide. Some of the more modern ones can separate and shove specific frequencies around through both speakers to create amazing spatial effects to a point where you wouldn't believe you're listening to a mono recording. For us, it's another tool in our arsenal.

Anyway, that's what we strive for in the studio. We're not always successful but that's our goal. The most important aspect of creating music is to record clean robust signals from the various instruments. Otherwise, it's garbage in/garbage out. Goldwave is your friend. I hope this helps someone thinking about creating some music. Best to you and yours in the new year.

Brian

http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com
http://www.Facebook.com/JazzHouseBlues

Hi Brian,

For decades, I LOVED stereo reproduction. As more recording tracks became available, the thrill of stereo left. Some songs from the 70's+ sound near mixed monophonic. Loudness seemed more important than fine stereo reproduction.
Even though I mix tracks amateurishly, I'm like you, and equal opportunity mixer. If I hear a tambourine of a hit song I like, I mix it so it could be heard. Why record something if you'd rather not want people to detect it.

A lot of sounds get masked in monophonic. Hearing some of the songs of the 60s in monophonic, sound distorted to me - but that's just me. When you open the stereo window (widen stereo), some instruments sound odd, like they shouldn't be there (from hit songs).

I wouldn't worry so much about Stereo mixes, as I guesstimate maybe 15% of society appreciates what it has to offer.

I've heard enough fabricated stereo from mono sources. I believe somehow Dolby Surround Sound encoding may be what is used. It's not perfect, instruments (and vocals) may jump around a bit, but it does sound improved.

Me, I avoid mixing instruments around centered vocals, especially a bass guitar I stay left or right to it. Does it matter? Well, if clarity of vocals are important, I'd say yes. Good luck.

Jack

[JackA]

This topic may be of interest to those of you thinking about recording and mixing music. When we produce music in the studio, we arrange it as if we're creating a stage performance. Literally. There's a left/right sound (stereo imaging) and then there's a front/back sound (depth reverb). In the mix, what we usually do is place the drums and bass in the center of the "stage" towards the back and split the lead instruments (guitar/sax/whatever) to the left or right as they would be on an actual stage. If there are any vocals, they're center and right up front. The idea is to give each instrument and vocals a distinct presence. Easier said than done.

At least, this should help you decide what to record in mono vs what to record in stereo. Our 'centered' drums are recorded in stereo. They pound away evenly through both speakers. Because we are looking for depth also, we place them at the back of the stage and as such, they'll have the most reverb. Even though we pump the bass through both speakers evenly, we record it in mono because many of the low end bass harmonics conflict with low end bass drum frequencies and can drown or null each other out. A mono signal allows us to compress and EQ it to get a distinctive sound cleanly separated from the drums.

Got a guitar/sax/flute/harmonica player? Where are they standing on the stage? Spread them out to the right and left of center and record them in mono so you can cleanly image them with only a 50% pan to the left or right. You don't want to do a hard 100% pan either way for technical reasons. (Don't know what those reasons are but they're right.) More than two lead instruments? Separate them by about 25% pans across the stage. You can't accomplish this if you recorded them in stereo. Also, they are closer to the front of the stage so the reverb treatment is less than the drum/bass reverb settings.

On another thread on this forum, there was some discussion about getting a stereo sound from a mono recording. There was some great input into the discussion. At the studio, we're believers in the enhancements that stereo imaging plugins/VST's can provide. Some of the more modern ones can separate and shove specific frequencies around through both speakers to create amazing spatial effects to a point where you wouldn't believe you're listening to a mono recording. For us, it's another tool in our arsenal.

Anyway, that's what we strive for in the studio. We're not always successful but that's our goal. The most important aspect of creating music is to record clean robust signals from the various instruments. Otherwise, it's garbage in/garbage out. Goldwave is your friend. I hope this helps someone thinking about creating some music. Best to you and yours in the new year.

Brian

http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com
http://www.Facebook.com/JazzHouseBlues

Hi Brian,

For decades, I LOVED stereo reproduction. As more recording tracks became available, the thrill of stereo left. Some songs from the 70's+ sound near mixed monophonic. Loudness seemed more important than fine stereo reproduction.
Even though I mix tracks amateurishly, I'm like you, an equal opportunity mixer. If I hear a tambourine in a hit song I like, I mix it so it can be heard. Why record something if you'd rather not want people to detect it.

A lot of sounds get masked in monophonic. Hearing some of the songs of the 60s in monophonic, sound distorted to me - but that's just me. When you open the stereo window (widen stereo), some instruments sound odd, like they shouldn't be there (from hit songs).

I wouldn't worry so much about Stereo mixes, as I guesstimate maybe 15% of society appreciates what it has to offer.

I've heard enough fabricated stereo from mono sources. I believe somehow Dolby Surround Sound encoding may be what is used. It's not perfect, instruments (and vocals) may jump around a bit, but it does sound improved.

Me, I avoid mixing instruments around centered vocals, especially a bass guitar, I stay left or right to it. Does it matter? Well, if clarity of vocals are important, I'd say yes. Good luck.

Jack

[bFlat]

@ ... Why record something if you'd rather not want people to detect it

Absolutely correct, Jack! Most of our tracks contain no more than 5 or 6 instruments. This allows us to focus on each instrument and bring out the best distinct sound possible for each. Trying to mix more instruments becomes a nightmare. There's only so many frequencies you can single out properly in the human hearing range. If we put in a tambourine or a shaker, we'll pair it up with instruments that don't compete in that frequency band or make extensive use of EQ to notch out space for it in the mix. For us, less is more.

Brian

http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com
http://www.Facebook.com/JazzHouseBlues

[KMM]

Sorry to bore you cats with simplicity!
I hope this is the right thread in which to ask this, and if it isn't, I apologize!
I had HOPED to do stereo recording on GW, having one laptop microphone be "left" stereo, another be "right." Seems like one should be able to do so but I have the sinking feeling the limitation isn't in GoldWave itself but rather laptops (btw, Windows 8.1), which only permit a single device be used for recording at a time. In other words, on a single laptop, you can't be using two microphones simultaneously (or am I wrong? please say that I am! Please!).
I'm a journalist and interview folks (usually one person) -- I had HOPED to use my excellent GoldWave software and plug in two microphones, putting the interviewee on stereo-right and my voice (separate mic) on stereo-left -- and mix the two as I record. If this is possible to do and someone can tell me how, I will shower his/her name with praises. As you may suspect, the beauty of my "plan" was, I wouldn't have to bring a big mixing board to interviews and could do everything on a single laptop. (Ah, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry!) Please tell me there's something obvious I'm missing here! THANKS.

[bFlat]

I'm a journalist and interview folks (usually one person) -- I had HOPED to use my excellent GoldWave software and plug in two microphones, putting the interviewee on stereo-right and my voice (separate mic) on stereo-left -- and mix the two as I record. Please tell me there's something obvious I'm missing here! THANKS.

Your stereo plan will not work out the way you want. Plug in one OMNI-Directional mic and record in MONO. Place the mic between you and the interviewee (hung or table mounted) and practice voice levels until you can hear both voices clearly through the input monitor. You should be no more than 4 to 5 feet apart (closer is better). Get ready to compress and EQ the file and make sure you understand how to use GW noise reduction feature.

Brian
http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com

[JackA]

I'm a journalist and interview folks (usually one person) -- I had HOPED to use my excellent GoldWave software and plug in two microphones, putting the interviewee on stereo-right and my voice (separate mic) on stereo-left -- and mix the two as I record. Please tell me there's something obvious I'm missing here! THANKS.

Your stereo plan will not work out the way you want. Plug in one OMNI-Directional mic and record in MONO. Place the mic between you and the interviewee (hung or table mounted) and practice voice levels until you can hear both voices clearly through the input monitor. You should be no more than 4 to 5 feet apart (closer is better). Get ready to compress and EQ the file and make sure you understand how to use GW noise reduction feature.

Brian
http://www.JazzHouseBlues.com

I'd just record it all in mono, and if well executed (no one's talking at the same time), just copy the mono interview to both stereo channels and silence where appropriate to create stereo. I do this sometimes with studio chatter.

Jack