Order of effects

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crobannon
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:48 am

Order of effects

Post by crobannon »

In what order should I use the following effects?
Maximize (normalize) volume
Equalize
Noise reduction
DougDbug
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Re: Order of effects

Post by DougDbug »

It's usually a good idea to Maximize as the last step before saving (or MaxMatch* if you prefer). Even if you don't plan on Maximizing, it's a good idea to start the Maximize effect to check the peak levels and make sure you're not clipping (going over 0dB), then you can optionally cancel the effect.

EQ (and some other effects) can boost the levels, and you can end-up going over 0dB. GoldWave uses floating-pont internally, so it can go over 0dB without clipping, but "regular' WAV files or CDs will clip at 0dB, and your digital-to-analog converter is also hard-limited to 0dB. If your levels go over 0dB, Maximizing will bring the levels down to a safe level.

It's OK to run Maximize more than once, so if your levels are low it's OK to run it first and then run it again at the end. Or if you are going to save the file and then come-back and work on it some more, you can Maximize, or at least check the maximum level, before saving.

In fact if I'm recording from analog I almost always run Maximize as the first step immediately after recording just to check the peaks. If the peaks are hitting 0dB before Maximizing, it's clipped so I start-over with a lower recording volume.

Noise Reduction is the tricky one... If you are going to do anything "non-linear" like Volume Shaping or Compression, apply Noise Reduction first because those things make the noise level go up-and-down making it harder to remove. But since compression (usually) boosts the quiet parts, it will boost any Noise Reduction artifacts, so you might have to go back and use less aggressive noise reduction, or try "something different".

But, you probably should EQ before Noise Reduction.... Noise Reduction sometimes creates artifacts and those artifacts may become more audible when you EQ, especially if you boost the highs. Noise Reduction after EQ will allow you to make a better compromise (if necessary) between the effectiveness of noise reduction and noise reduction artifacts.



* MaxMatch is normally for analog recordings where there may be a left/right volume imbalance, especially in the playback system. (I use it when I digitize vinyl records.) Commercial digital recordings should be OK, and since MaxMatch is "just an algorithm" it may make the left/right balance worse (to the ear).
DewDude420
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Re: Order of effects

Post by DewDude420 »

Run noise reduction before equalization. The reason being is that the EQ can actually alter the noise profile and make it more difficult to remove some types of noise. Keep the amount of processing down to reduce artifacting. Remember, this is noise reduction...not noise elimination. You will not get rid of all the noise. Anything you saw on TV is a lie.

Run maximize last. Always make it the last step. Goldwave processes audio in 32-bit floating point which can allow for sample data to be above the clip level without clipping. It is during the final save and conversion to integer data that you will get clipping. Maximizing resolves for the clipping that may be in the file from processing.
crobannon
Posts: 5
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Re: Order of effects

Post by crobannon »

Thanks, both of you. I use noise reduction under 2 conditions. 1. If it is a live recording I have made, I want to reduce the tape hiss and any hums. I use default for this. 2. If I've recorded off of vinyl, I want to remove the pops and ticks. I plan to use the specific pops and ticks filter.

So, from you 2 and a friend of mine who is an amateur recording engineer, the consensus is:
1. Noise reduction
2. equalizer (I use default)
3. volume maximizing. (once again default)
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Order of effects

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

Using the Equalizer's "Default" preset doesn't really do anything. You'd need to set the controls to something other than zero dB to change the equalization.
DewDude420
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Re: Order of effects

Post by DewDude420 »

When doing noise reduction its best to find a sample of noise and copy to clipboard, then use that for the reduction profile.
JackA
Posts: 154
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Re: Order of effects

Post by JackA »

crobannon wrote:Thanks, both of you. I use noise reduction under 2 conditions. 1. If it is a live recording I have made, I want to reduce the tape hiss and any hums. I use default for this. 2. If I've recorded off of vinyl, I want to remove the pops and ticks. I plan to use the specific pops and ticks filter.

So, from you 2 and a friend of mine who is an amateur recording engineer, the consensus is:
1. Noise reduction
2. equalizer (I use default)
3. volume maximizing. (once again default)
Before I even start, I always check the DC Offset, Chris added a nice touch to automate it, with varying or stable offset. I always use varying (then check it with the manual offset). I can actually see, maybe an intro the was added after then fact, shift up or down, but the remainder of the recording stays stationary. Does it make any audio difference, probably yes, but beyond human hearing recognition. I'm just paranoid with DC offset, but it's interesting to see what recordings are easily changed, just be trimming lead-in or lead-out silent sound.

I use, I guess it's the Parametric Equalizer. WinAmp comes in handy, I can alter its equalizer, real-time, boosting this or attenuating that, then apply about 1/2 the dB to GW's Equalizer, matching the frequency band of WinAmp, since Equalizers seldom match, assume no standards.

p.s. One time I watched GW frequency bars, an I detected a constant offset (stationary bar). DC offset had no effect. I later learned the recording had a odd peak, about 17kHz, that was causing the constant bar. Think I truncated the frequency right before 17kHz. Not like I can even hear 17 kHz! :-)

Jack
JackA
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Re: Order of effects

Post by JackA »

JackA wrote:
crobannon wrote:Thanks, both of you. I use noise reduction under 2 conditions. 1. If it is a live recording I have made, I want to reduce the tape hiss and any hums. I use default for this. 2. If I've recorded off of vinyl, I want to remove the pops and ticks. I plan to use the specific pops and ticks filter.

So, from you 2 and a friend of mine who is an amateur recording engineer, the consensus is:
1. Noise reduction
2. equalizer (I use default)
3. volume maximizing. (once again default)
Before I even start, I always check the DC Offset, Chris added a nice touch to automate it, with varying or stable offset. I always use varying (then check it with the manual offset). I can actually see, maybe an intro that was added after then fact, shift up or down, but the remainder of the recording stays stationary. Mixing can also vary Offset. Does it make any audio difference, probably yes, but beyond human hearing recognition. I'm just paranoid with DC offset, but it's interesting to see what recordings are easily changed, just be trimming lead-in or lead-out silent sound.

I use, I guess it's the Parametric Equalizer. WinAmp comes in handy, I can alter its equalizer, real-time, boosting this or attenuating that, then apply about 1/2 the dB to GW's Equalizer, matching the frequency band of WinAmp, since Equalizers seldom match, assume no standards.

p.s. One time I watched GW frequency bars, an I detected a constant offset (stationary bar). DC offset had no effect. I later learned the recording had a odd peak, about 17kHz, that was causing the constant bar. Think I truncated the frequency right before 17kHz. Not like I can even hear 17 kHz! :-)

Jack
ScottRed
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:58 am

Re: Order of effects

Post by ScottRed »

DewDudee420 wrote:When doing noise reduction its best to find a sample of noise and copy to clipboard, then use that for the reduction profile.
I always do noise reduction first. Is that the correct thing to do?
Last edited by ScottRed on Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Order of effects

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

If you are using one of the shape graph presets, then you may want to Maximize the volume first to bring it to a consistent level before Noise Reduction (the shape presets need the volume to be full range for best results). If you are using a clipboard noise print, then that would not be necessary.

If you are recording vinyl with click and pops, then it may be best to use the Pop/Click filter first.
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