id3 track field is erased for WAV format

GoldWave general discussions and community help
Michael REMY
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:07 am
Location: Amiens
Contact:

id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by Michael REMY »

hi,
i use the 6.31 release.
i notice that every time i edit a WAV file (i created from a CD convert using DBpowerAMP), goldwave erases the field TRACK info! only that field, the other fields from the id3 tag remain well !

strange bug !
it does not append with FLAC format.

have a good day
DewDude420
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by DewDude420 »

WAV does not have a standard method of storing id3 tag information. Some programs implement some form of tagging for wav, but with no standard results vary.

It is not a bug.
GoldWave Inc.
Site Admin
Posts: 4063
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: St. John's, NL
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

Try using File | Information in GoldWave to see if the track is there. If not, try entering the track and save the file to see if it is retained. DBpowerAMP may be storing the information differently. As DewDude420 mentioned, the Wave format is limited in terms of metadata.
Michael REMY
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:07 am
Location: Amiens
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by Michael REMY »

GoldWave Inc. wrote:Try using File | Information in GoldWave to see if the track is there. If not, try entering the track and save the file to see if it is retained. DBpowerAMP may be storing the information differently. As DewDude420 mentioned, the Wave format is limited in terms of metadata.
goldwave did not see the track number whereas it is really here (when i convert the wav to flac/mp3 with another tool, the track remains).

i tried to enter a number and save, then goldwave kept it.

i tried to read the infos with VLC, and vlc successed to read thetrack number from the same WAV file.
Mp3tag manages to read it too.

So , the problem is that goldwave does not manager to read where the track infos is store in the "mp3 tag" produced by DBpowerAMP .

best regards
DewDude420
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by DewDude420 »

From dbpoweramp's documentation:


Wave files can store limited (choice of fields) ID Tags in a Wave LIST chunk, or a full range id ID Tags in an 'id3 ' chunk (which is an id3v2 tag). By default both types of tags are written for maximum compatibility. Not all programs can read these chunks.

Also...you have to configure what tags to write:


dBpoweramp Configuration offers advanced options for this codec (dBpoweramp Control Center >> Audio Codecs 'List / Options'):
Wave ID Tagging

This section allows for configuration of LIST tags, to set optimum compatibility with decoding program. Padding can be used so that when ID Tags are edited the whole file does not need rewriting.
Michael REMY
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:07 am
Location: Amiens
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by Michael REMY »

DewDude420 wrote:From dbpoweramp's documentation:


Wave files can store limited (choice of fields) ID Tags in a Wave LIST chunk, or a full range id ID Tags in an 'id3 ' chunk (which is an id3v2 tag). By default both types of tags are written for maximum compatibility. Not all programs can read these chunks.

Also...you have to configure what tags to write:


dBpoweramp Configuration offers advanced options for this codec (dBpoweramp Control Center >> Audio Codecs 'List / Options'):
Wave ID Tagging

This section allows for configuration of LIST tags, to set optimum compatibility with decoding program. Padding can be used so that when ID Tags are edited the whole file does not need rewriting.
my question is mainly why goldwave does not manage to read the track info in the WAVE whereas VLC and even the old winamp can do it.
DewDude420
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by DewDude420 »

Look....this was explained.

There is no standard for tagging WAV. Either Goldwave doesn't support whatever dbpoweramp is writing in to the file....or dbpoweramp isn't writing tags at all.

What your other programs do don't matter.
GoldWave Inc.
Site Admin
Posts: 4063
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: St. John's, NL
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

The original Wave specification did not provide a chunk for a track number. GoldWave stores the track in an 'itrk' chunk. It uses lowercase letters because non-standard chunks must use lowercase according to the specification. I suspect that the other programs may be using uppercase, which would not be correct.
jwehle
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:43 am

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by jwehle »

While I realize I'm replying to an old thread, perhaps this will be of interest to others.

I appreciate the value of following a specification and I've supplied a patch for libsndfile which can be seen at:

https://github.com/libsndfile/libsndfile/issues/653

Hopefully that will resolve the issue for myself and others.

I'll note as a practical matter many projects use libsndfile and given that storing a track number isn't directly covered by the original standard, in the interest of data interchange it may be useful for GoldWave to support the uppercase ITRK marker instead (or in addition to itrk) if that's the defacto standard (I'm not saying it is ... I don't know).
Michael REMY
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:07 am
Location: Amiens
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by Michael REMY »

thank you.

'till i post that message, i'm now using goldwave 6.52 x64 and that problem is remaining.
my process workflow:
1 take a CD, transfert it into wav files using DBpowerAMP
2 apply many filter using golwve batch lot
3 convert files into another format
4 re-insert the track number using mp3tag editor (because it can take it from filename to put it in to tag by batch lot)

ps : i also notice, the "album Artist" field is erased too from Wav file when i use goldwave batch lot.
GoldWave Inc.
Site Admin
Posts: 4063
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: St. John's, NL
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

Have you tried using the CD Reader tool in GoldWave? That may preserve the track information.
jwehle
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:43 am

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by jwehle »

I'm unclear how the CD Reader Tool helps ... doesn't that tool read CDs and pull information
from an online database?

In my case I already have files with the information and am interested in batch converting them.

A useful principle when dealing with data interchange is to be strict when writing and liberal when reading. Meaning when reading files it would be helpful if Goldwave would recognize common alternative tags for things like Track ID and Album Artist.
DewDude420
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by DewDude420 »

jwehle wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:02 pm
I'm unclear how the CD Reader Tool helps ... doesn't that tool read CDs and pull information
from an online database?
Yes; but it may write the information in to a WAV file in a different way.
jwehle wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:02 pm
A useful principle when dealing with data interchange is to be strict when writing and liberal when reading. Meaning when reading files it would be helpful if Goldwave would recognize common alternative tags for things like Track ID and Album Artist.
Again...there is no real standard way of storing file information tags in a WAV file; so Chris would have to study x-number of programs to support all of them. It's not worth it. WAV was not designed for this purpose. You shouldn't be storing raw audio in WAV format for long-term.
jwehle
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:43 am

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by jwehle »

There appears to be a couple of defacto standards.

From a code perspective it's minimal work as demonstrated by the patch I supplied libsndfile (granted it's not zero work and Chris only has a finite amount of time and probably an infinite list of projects). 8)

The issue doesn't need to be defined by long term storage. It's handy to use the wav format as part of a workflow involving multiple tools. It's more useful if the all metadata also survives the flow.

You say it's not worth it ... okay, you're entitled to your opinion (as is Chris). For me it is worth it which is why I created the libsndfile patch. I would do the work myself to patch GoldWave if it was an option.

Both Michael and myself have use cases which make it worth it to us.
FH991586
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:00 pm

Re: id3 track field is erased for WAV format

Post by FH991586 »

DewDude420 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:01 pm
You shouldn't be storing raw audio in WAV format for long-term.
Why not? It's lossless, uncompressed, offers cd quality, and can be read by anything easily. I've been doing this for more than 15 years, starting while badly compressed MP3 ruled the dial-in internet... Sure, the metadata thing is a mess (took me a while to figure it out, thanks to GW!), but once you get the work around, it's ok.

I'm really curious on how you support your statement.
Post Reply