fixing record warp

GoldWave general discussions and community help
Post Reply
DewDude420
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

fixing record warp

Post by DewDude420 »

ok, believe it or not...this audio engineer is stuck.

I'm trasnferring a bunch of LP's to DVD (96khz 24-bit) and my BTO has a slight warp in it, you can see the entire headshell/cartridge/tonearm kind of..bounce, every once in a while.

I didn't think much of it,, but it's showed up in recording as a costant overall amplitude change. It's hard to describe, so, I've posted a screenshot.

Now, I'm sorry this isn't a screenshot from Goldwave...but, I had already done my processing with Goldwave and imported into Audition for some of the heavier stuff.

Anyone have any clue how to fix this? my first instinct is to copy just the pattern and run a simple NR on it, but i'm not entirely sure how effective that would be?

anyone got any suggestions?

Image
DougDbug
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Silicon Valley

Post by DougDbug »

I'd start with a high-pass filter. It looks like about a 7Hz* "wave", so a 20Hz high-pass filter should knock it down without affecting the sound. It's a rather large signal, so you need to use a steep filter, and you may need to use a higher cutoff frequency, or run the low-pass process more than once, to "kill it".

If there are higher-frequency audible side-effects of the warp, filtering-out the low frequency won't clear-up those noises, and there may be no way to clean-up the recording. If all else fails, buy the CD! :D

You can try noise reduction, but noise reduction usually works best on low-level background noise... This is high-level foreground noise, and I suspect that noise reduction will adversely affect the sound.




* In case you don't know, frequency (Hz) is the inverse of the period (the time for one complete wave). I see approximately 2-cycles over about 0.3 seconds... 1/0.15 = 6.67Hz. (You may want to zoom-in and make a more-accurate measurement.)

-----------------------------

My "standard comments" about recording LPs.
DougDbug wrote:There are lots of hints & tips about recording/digitizing LPs on this page.


I will almost always do the following:

I always check for clipping. I run Maximize to check the peak level, and if it's 0dB I assume it's clipped and I re-record. (Clipping is distorted flat-topped "waves", caused by trying to go above the digital maximum of 0dB.)

I use Wave Repair ($30 USD) to remove "ticks", "clicks", and "pops". It does an amazing job by replacing the defect with the just-preceding or just-following few milliseconds of sound (or a couple of other methods). WARNING - This can be very time consuming. Wave Repair seems to work best when used manually. It usually takes a day (or a weekend) for me to fix-up a recording.

I try some noise reduction and/or noisegate. Sometimes there can be artifacts (side effects), so I don't always apply these "filters".

If it's an old "dull sounding" recording, I'll add some high-end boost (with the Equalizer).

After I'm done with any other processing, I always Maximize (normalize) or use GoldWave's MaxMatch. This sets the level so that the peaks are exactly 0dB, giving the best signal-to-noise ratio at playback time. It's generally best to normalize the whole album as a single WAV file to retain the relative level between the tracks... Some songs are supposed to be louder or softer than others.

Whenever I burn a CD, I always make an extra archive/back-up copy. If I'm doing lots of processing, I make an un-processed archive CD too.
JackH
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by JackH »

Blending the channels together below a certain frequency can work miracles in some cases, and it might on your recording... it looks like the warp noise might be out of phase in the two channels, which is often the case. When blended together, the noise present in each channel will cancel the other out perfectly.

Nice as it is, I'm not sure Goldwave offers this capability. I use a program called DC6 for this; perhaps Adobe Audition has something similar. You'd need to experiment with the frequency that works best, but I'd start at 20Hz or so, and see what happens. This can have a beneficial effect on many recordings even when carried into the audible range, like 100Hz or so.

The high-pass filter DougDbug suggested is a good idea also. I often use both techniques, low-frequency channel blending first, then a high-pass filter to finish.
DewDude420
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Post by DewDude420 »

the high-pass filter....so freakin simple i totally forgot to think about that. kind of like how einstien couldn't tie his shoes....

i will admit..i hadn't even thought of that..and if i was the kind of digital audio engineer i like to think i am..i should have, but i haven't encountered something like that in a while and i've been so deep into complex restoration my mind didn't click for something as simple as a high-pass filter.

so, a rather sharp 10hz highpass was able to take care of the heavy inaudble wave from the warp, but there was still the matter of the rumble caused by the deformity i can't completely filter out..bummer, it had barely been played...it was still fun watching my cartridge bounce like it did and continue to track the groove as well as it did...so thanks for slapping me across the face with the highpass.

as far as noise reduction is concerned...i'm quite aware of what it is...i've been playing with it since i first saw it in goldwave many years ago and through trial and error got pretty good with it...and i've had some success removing patters in waveforms....maybe i'm thinking of an old method..or soemthing..the biggest problem with noise reduction is people generally go with a "go big or go home" mentality, or don't know how to properly select something for NR to go on.

it's not an issue of buying the CD for me..because i dont' own any particulary rare vinyl, i just like my dynamics..and lets face it...most anything remasted now usually is compressed...there are exceptions..prime example of horrible mastering and a case where vinyl is the winner. white stripes - icky thump. the cd version was mastered by the same guy who ruined rhcp - californication...and icky thump has the same signature..clipped samples all over the place. the vinyl version was mastered by steve hoffman...it sounds amazing...it's also however a slightly different mix.
Stiiv
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:29 pm
Location: Fallentown, PA

Post by Stiiv »

prime example of horrible mastering and a case where vinyl is the winner
You bet. My favorite example is Iggy & the Stooges' "Raw Power", which was deliberately recorded, mixed & mastered for vinyl (by Iggy & Bowie) to sound, well, very raw. :roll: The remastered version, done by the Ig himself, is clip city...the waveforms of the remastered tracks, especially compared to those of the originals, are featureless rectangles, no peaks or valleys whatsoever. Squashed by overcompression, gain jacked through the roof, so much detail lost...it really is the difference between sounding "raw" & sounding "like crap".
Stiiv
DewDude420
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Contact:

Post by DewDude420 »

JackH wrote:Blending the channels together below a certain frequency can work miracles in some cases, and it might on your recording... it looks like the warp noise might be out of phase in the two channels, which is often the case. When blended together, the noise present in each channel will cancel the other out perfectly.
the warp noise was in fact out of phase, at least in the inaudiable portion of the spectrum, however, it wasn't a perfect 180...so complete cancellation wasn't really possible. as to why it wasn't a perfect 180..i'm not entirely sure...from a theoritical standpoint i could see where it would be...but again...it wasn't a total 180...the waveform was pretty much a total inverse...they were 180 enough to cancel out...i didn't feel like messing with the tools to figure it out.
JackH wrote:Nice as it is, I'm not sure Goldwave offers this capability. I use a program called DC6 for this; perhaps Adobe Audition has something similar. You'd need to experiment with the frequency that works best, but I'd start at 20Hz or so, and see what happens. This can have a beneficial effect on many recordings even when carried into the audible range, like 100Hz or so.
i'm not exactly sure where it is in audition either. audition does have a graphic phase shifter...but what i really wanna do is average the frequencies below let's say 40hz...i've noticed more and more after watching the phase meter in AD (i feel so horrible talking about that thing on the goldwave forum) i'm notcing a lot of turntable rumble is out of phase...so, it might be something to look into. i'm pretty sure the capability is there somewhere, i just haven't gotten deep enough into some of the tools to figure it out.
Post Reply