Folks,
I need assistance in setting up a simple system to record a small grand piano--nothing fancy, and monitoring/latency is not an issue. Here is what I want to do:
1. Purchase a small, new, cheap laptop to be dedicated to this use.
2. Purchase a single (mono) Audio Technica AT 2020 USB mike (side address) to place on a mike stand near or under the piano--to plug into the USB port directly--with no other interface.
3. Purchase a license for GoldWave.
Here are my questions:
1. I have read the section on "recording" under FAQ. The instructions state that you should plug a microphone into the SOUND CARD. But I would be plugging into the USB port--would these instructions still apply? If not, could I still use the software to record from the USB port in a different manner?
2. What would be a good, fairly inexpensive soundcard for my purpuses?
3. Anything I have not included or thought of that you think I need to know before buying all this stuff?
Thanks in advance.
Russ
Help Requested
Re: Help Requested
That sounds like a good solution! It's probably the most economical way to get a good quality recording.
The USB mic essentially has a "sound card" (and preamp) built in.
I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of that microphone, but I've heard of it, and I think you should be able to get good quality recordings. (In a "good room", with a good piano... and a good pianist!
) I have read that recording a piano can be "tricky"... But, I don't know the details or the "tricks".
I don't have a USB mic, but I think the following will work: After installing the driver that comes with the mic, in GoldWave, go to Options -> Control Properties -> Volume and select the USB mic as the Volume Device.
The main advantage to this approach is that you're not relying on the quality of your laptop's soundchip. "Consumer" soundcards/soundchips are known for low-quality mic preamps.* With a USB mic, everything going into the computer is digital, so neither the hardware or your choice of recording software will have any effect on audio quality (assuming the hardware & software are working properly, etc.)
The main disadvantage is that you're stuck with mono (apparently not an issue for you). There are stereo USB mics, but I don't know if there is any software that can use 2 or more separate USB mics. If some new situation comes-up where you need another mic, you won't be able to use the AT. One way to get more flexability would be to get a USB microphone adapter and a regular microphone, but this would cost you more and it's one more gizmo to mess with.
Another issue with anything that connects to a computer is that it may become obsolete at some future date. An analog microphone can literally last a lifetime, but I don't know if you'll be able to get a USB driver for "Windows 2025".
One more thing to think about... If you are recording live performances, I don't trust computers! I love computers, and I love what a computer can do with audio/video... But, computers are less reliable than any other common piece of electronic gear! If you're recording something critical and there's no possibility of a 2nd take, you need some sort of back-up recording in parallel!
* Plus, regular soundcards are not designed for professional low-impedance balanced microphone connections. The usual solution is to use a mixer and run line-level connections into the computer's "line-in" (which some laptops don't have). Even if you're recording mono, an inexpensive mixer can be used as a mic preamp. , or to get professional soundcard. Or, you can get an external USB or Firewire box that has proper microphone inputs/preamps.
The USB mic essentially has a "sound card" (and preamp) built in.
I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of that microphone, but I've heard of it, and I think you should be able to get good quality recordings. (In a "good room", with a good piano... and a good pianist!
) I have read that recording a piano can be "tricky"... But, I don't know the details or the "tricks". I don't have a USB mic, but I think the following will work: After installing the driver that comes with the mic, in GoldWave, go to Options -> Control Properties -> Volume and select the USB mic as the Volume Device.
The main advantage to this approach is that you're not relying on the quality of your laptop's soundchip. "Consumer" soundcards/soundchips are known for low-quality mic preamps.* With a USB mic, everything going into the computer is digital, so neither the hardware or your choice of recording software will have any effect on audio quality (assuming the hardware & software are working properly, etc.)
The main disadvantage is that you're stuck with mono (apparently not an issue for you). There are stereo USB mics, but I don't know if there is any software that can use 2 or more separate USB mics. If some new situation comes-up where you need another mic, you won't be able to use the AT. One way to get more flexability would be to get a USB microphone adapter and a regular microphone, but this would cost you more and it's one more gizmo to mess with.
Another issue with anything that connects to a computer is that it may become obsolete at some future date. An analog microphone can literally last a lifetime, but I don't know if you'll be able to get a USB driver for "Windows 2025".
One more thing to think about... If you are recording live performances, I don't trust computers! I love computers, and I love what a computer can do with audio/video... But, computers are less reliable than any other common piece of electronic gear! If you're recording something critical and there's no possibility of a 2nd take, you need some sort of back-up recording in parallel!
* Plus, regular soundcards are not designed for professional low-impedance balanced microphone connections. The usual solution is to use a mixer and run line-level connections into the computer's "line-in" (which some laptops don't have). Even if you're recording mono, an inexpensive mixer can be used as a mic preamp. , or to get professional soundcard. Or, you can get an external USB or Firewire box that has proper microphone inputs/preamps.
Re: Help Requested
If you can fork out the extra cash, I say go with a stereo recording setup instead. Whether it's as a solo instrument or part of a multitrack, you'd be amazed at how much better a stereo piano recording sounds compared to a mono recording of the same.
Here are a couple examples:
mono
stereo
Everything about these two samples is the same (i.e., the mono is merely bounced down from the stereo; nothing else was done to "adulterate" the recordings.)
Anyway, I recorded this playing my own [digital] piano; I started in the higher octaves and ended in the lower octaves wholly to provide a good "stereo vs. mono" sample. Granted, being a digital piano, the "perfect/ideal microphone setup" has already been done for me (I just plug my piano into my computer and hit the record button.) So perhaps my samples are "too perfect." But still, if I were to setup my own microphones, I know a stereo recording would have more depth to it than than mono.
But as I said, it costs more money. So if not now, maybe down the road. Just my $0.02.
Here are a couple examples:
mono
stereo
Everything about these two samples is the same (i.e., the mono is merely bounced down from the stereo; nothing else was done to "adulterate" the recordings.)
Anyway, I recorded this playing my own [digital] piano; I started in the higher octaves and ended in the lower octaves wholly to provide a good "stereo vs. mono" sample. Granted, being a digital piano, the "perfect/ideal microphone setup" has already been done for me (I just plug my piano into my computer and hit the record button.) So perhaps my samples are "too perfect." But still, if I were to setup my own microphones, I know a stereo recording would have more depth to it than than mono.
But as I said, it costs more money. So if not now, maybe down the road. Just my $0.02.
Re: Help Requested
Doug and Matt:
Thanks for your lengthy and considered replies. Very helpful, should I decide to go the mono route I describe. As to all the downsides of the mono route, I have definitely heard that on the Pianoworld website--most agree that two mikes in stereo (even if placed very close together with not much true separation--are better--although you do risk some possibility of their cancelling each other out.
Not too worried about the computer failing at a critical moment--I'm not going to lose any income if I fail to catch a performance.
My main reason for wanting to go the mono USB route is pure simplicity. My main objective is hearing the result of my practicing. Still--quality is quality. Sounds like I can use Goldwave in either situation--so that answers my main question.
Matt: Can't open your links here at work but will later at home. Thanks.
Doug: Question about the microphone adapter--it looks like to record stero, you would need 2 of those?? How does that work--that doesn't really seem likely, but my hair is hurting! Or, since it goes to USB, am I correct that it would end up just allowing me to use one analog mike for mono instead of being stuck with a pure digital mike forever?
I will chew on all this and decide between the two solutions: (1) the mono USB or (2) a couple of 9090 condenser mikes plugged into an M-Audio Fast Track Pro--to the USB port. Just more stuff to lug into the music room each time I want to practice (if I try to leave it there, my wife will see that a proctologist has to be called in to remove it.)
Thanks again,
Russ
Thanks for your lengthy and considered replies. Very helpful, should I decide to go the mono route I describe. As to all the downsides of the mono route, I have definitely heard that on the Pianoworld website--most agree that two mikes in stereo (even if placed very close together with not much true separation--are better--although you do risk some possibility of their cancelling each other out.
Not too worried about the computer failing at a critical moment--I'm not going to lose any income if I fail to catch a performance.
My main reason for wanting to go the mono USB route is pure simplicity. My main objective is hearing the result of my practicing. Still--quality is quality. Sounds like I can use Goldwave in either situation--so that answers my main question.
Matt: Can't open your links here at work but will later at home. Thanks.
Doug: Question about the microphone adapter--it looks like to record stero, you would need 2 of those?? How does that work--that doesn't really seem likely, but my hair is hurting! Or, since it goes to USB, am I correct that it would end up just allowing me to use one analog mike for mono instead of being stuck with a pure digital mike forever?
I will chew on all this and decide between the two solutions: (1) the mono USB or (2) a couple of 9090 condenser mikes plugged into an M-Audio Fast Track Pro--to the USB port. Just more stuff to lug into the music room each time I want to practice (if I try to leave it there, my wife will see that a proctologist has to be called in to remove it.)
Thanks again,
Russ
Re: Help Requested
Right on! Not a lot of equipment to mess with... not a lot of cables to mess with (or come loose or break)... I like it!!! I just wanted to point out a couple of considerations...My main reason for wanting to go the mono USB route is pure simplicity.
Right... With two of those, or with 2 USB mics, you cannot record stereo. The software will require you to select one "device" or one soundcard. Right... The advantage is that you're not "stuck" with digital mic.Doug: Question about the microphone adapter--it looks like to record stero, you would need 2 of those?? How does that work--that doesn't really seem likely, but my hair is hurting! Or, since it goes to USB, am I correct that it would end up just allowing me to use one analog mike for mono instead of being stuck with a pure digital mike forever?
Re: Help Requested
I have these in-ear binaural microphones (if you're unfamiliar with binaural, it is 2-channel [like stereo] but it's not "standard" stereo; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording for more info.) They record things nicely and they are small and convenient (they come in a small Ziplok bag that can fit in your pocket.
Anyway, I've used them in-ear to make binaural recordings, but I've also used them out-of-ear to make decent stereo recordings (obviously, such a setup is not engineered for ideal stereo, but I find it provides decent separation.) When I have a moment, I'll make an acoustic recording of my digital piano with these microphones.
Anyway, I've used them in-ear to make binaural recordings, but I've also used them out-of-ear to make decent stereo recordings (obviously, such a setup is not engineered for ideal stereo, but I find it provides decent separation.) When I have a moment, I'll make an acoustic recording of my digital piano with these microphones.
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donrandall
- Posts: 550
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:06 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado
Re: Help Requested
The Audio Technica AT2020 is generally considered to be a decent mic. No, it isn't a thousand dollar Sennheiser or a two thousand dollar Neumann, but it should serve you well.
The USB version does not require and cannot use a soundcard for recording. The USB circuit routes a digital signal into the computer, making it unnecessary for a soundcard to convert the analog signal to digital. That's why it connects thru the USB port rather than into the onboard soundcard input jack.
Because you will want to avoid overdriving or saturating the signal, be sure to check your levels before you start recording. Try to keep the meter peaking no higher than -5 or -6 (around 50%). Once you have finished recording - and before you save the track - click MAXIMIZE VOLUME and note that it will tell you the highest peak that you have reached. You may discover that you have exceeded 0dB (100%) which could result in distortion. But since you haven't saved it yet, you can avoid distortion (unless it is severely overdriven) by clicking on one of the available presets or by typing in a setting of your preference into the white field near the upper right corner. Then go ahead and save it once you have decided that you have what you want.
The USB version does not require and cannot use a soundcard for recording. The USB circuit routes a digital signal into the computer, making it unnecessary for a soundcard to convert the analog signal to digital. That's why it connects thru the USB port rather than into the onboard soundcard input jack.
Because you will want to avoid overdriving or saturating the signal, be sure to check your levels before you start recording. Try to keep the meter peaking no higher than -5 or -6 (around 50%). Once you have finished recording - and before you save the track - click MAXIMIZE VOLUME and note that it will tell you the highest peak that you have reached. You may discover that you have exceeded 0dB (100%) which could result in distortion. But since you haven't saved it yet, you can avoid distortion (unless it is severely overdriven) by clicking on one of the available presets or by typing in a setting of your preference into the white field near the upper right corner. Then go ahead and save it once you have decided that you have what you want.