Some observations and suggestions

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cvw
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Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

First of all, I am very happy with the results I'm getting with this program. For years I've been looking for a stable, intuitively designed video editor at a reasonable price. VideoMeld does this. I recently produced a 90 minute movie at my studio utilizing just about every feature in the program with only minor issues to speak of. In hundreds of hours of use so far, there were two occasions where an OS hang up occurred, but were completely recoverable, without data loss.

I have been running VM on a PC here with win7 64/core i5/8gb/GT-610. My only frustration with the interface comes when I need to cursor over an area to click on a function where the green timeline bars stop, and can't perform the action until I manually move the bar(s) away from the spot. Is this fixable? Aside from that, I do have a pet peeve, which is that there is no pause button (||). I'd like to see a pause button used for "stopping", and the "Stop" button used for returning to the start point of the section being worked. No big deal really, just my preference.

I have one issue though that troubles me. I am aware that VBR files can cause sync issues, so I do not use them. I would love to produce in WMV format to get the quality up, but cannot render to WMV without a four second gap between audio and video files. Perhaps someone has a clue for me. Audio is in WAV format. My video is generated by cameras using h.264 as an output format at HD/1020p. I have divided long duration videos into 15 minute chunks to give the processors a break, which work fairly hard when rendering in WMV (but are very happy in mp4). Also, as if to add insult to injury, the rendered WMV product drops out occasionally (white screen flashing). Sounds like processor fatigue to me, but I may be wrong. I hate to have to upgrade this computer, if that is the problem, but if necessary will do so. Your feedback would be very much appreciated.
cvw
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

I have used the suggested workaround for key frame issues (converted problem files to a previewable form) to see if that might give me a clue to the sync problem I am having with WMV rendering. What results from this is an improved video/audio meld, but still not right. Sound is about .05 seconds late at first, ending up about a full second late at the end. A huge step forward, but still inadequate. This is a large video file, HD 1080p, 90 minutes, 6+ gb, so I'm wondering if the weight of the data may just be beyond program capabilities, which really doesn't click to me. It's more like I haven't yet educated myself to a proper understanding of how VM's attributes work best to get a job done. I'll keep working it until someone with a better clue chimes in.
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

What is the frame rate of the original video and the sampling rate of the audio? There could be a slight rounding error that cause some drift. If the original frame rate and sampling rate match the melded rates, then there shouldn't be any drift.

Chris
cvw
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

The video being used is 30fps (more accurately 29.97). The audio is WAV at 1411kbps. I'm curious, you mention there is a slight rounding error. Would you elaborate on this? I've melded at 30 fps and at 29.97, to see if there was an issue caused by "rounding" up to 30fps, seeing a slight degradation at 29.97, which was counter to what I had expected.

I also checked the original video formats, finding that one of the cameras produces MOV files (I was thinking they all produced h.264, which was incorrect per my original post). Could the mixing of video formats also be a factor?

Thanks for your response.
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

I'll have to look into it some more. 1 second over 90 minutes is small enough to be attributed to a rounding error, so there may be something that needs to be fine tuned in VideoMeld.

How are you determining how much the synchronization is off? Are you reloading the video in VideoMeld or are you using other playback software?

Chris
cvw
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

In using Windows Media Player, Quick Time, DivX Player, Nero Player, IrfanView, Video Meld itself, and several other freeware players on a PC, I get the best results using Windows Media Player for both the MP4 and WMV files. The worst results I get are with the QuickTime player (and of course the wmv files are not supported). All others have varying success, but at least do better than QT. My concern is to get the best results for the largest potential audience for the average video customer on their computer, or phone/mobile device, while also supporting DVD play for stand-alone players, etc. At this point, mp4/H.264 files do this best.

Yes, if this is a tuning issue for VM, it would be super to see that as a fix.

I understand that what I'm trying to do with VideoMeld in relation to this thread where syncing issues have come up is probably out of the parameters of what it is designed to do for the customer. So, any successes with long duration video could be seen more to maybe push the envelope of expectations, than to form what might be seen a complaint. So please bear with me in this.

Having used this software to produce numerous video files of varying durations with levels of complexity from the very simple to those having dozens of tracks, it works very well. Where it becomes problematic is only with the longer time duration files, where the length gets past the fifteen minute mark or so, where synchronization of audio and video aspects begin to show up, and ONLY where WMV files are the desired final product. This may be beyond what we should expect VM to solve. Maybe not.

For my needs, where a video promo or music video is created, VM easily handles the project with ease and with superior results. I would like to use VM where a >single file< extended time video is desired ('short film' or feature length movie), so if in our discussions we can come up with solutions, that would be super! Short of those solutions, you can still call me a happy customer.

So far, one answer is to divide the produced video into segments that can be viewed in shorter duration "Parts". But this is unacceptable where the continuity of the subject is needed to prevent undue chopping up of a story line or artistic venture. Another answer is "don't use WMV as an output file". That may just be what we come to conclude here as the best answer, unless of course a solution to the sync issue is discovered (which would make me very happy).

However, it has been my experience that when uploading to third party servers (YouTube/FB et.al.) I generally see the best "HD" results using WMV as the origin file for the upload, converted by the host for universal viewing. Hence, my hope is to get WMV to cooperate.

All that being said, whatever solutions we might come up with to get past the WMV sync conundrum for longer duration video is icing on the VideoMeld cake. Thanks so much for your focus on this.
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

After running a number of tests, I couldn't duplicate the 1 second synchronization problem. The audio and video were off by only a few frames after 90 minutes (30fps, WMV). I've increased the timing accuracy in VideoMeld so now it gives synchronization to within +/-1 frame after 90 minutes. Opening the melded 90 minute video in VideoMeld shows accurate synchronization as well (View | Section Detail | High).

Do you notice synchronization problems while previewing the project in VideoMeld or does it only occur in the final melded video?

Chrus
cvw
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

Thanks, I appreciate very much that you have done some tests to try to resolve things here. The improved timing accuracy will add value to the program.

But I wonder, is the relative complexity of a project a potential issue? Image
My current project is 67 minutes. It has 45 video files (mp4, wmv, mov) with numerous and varied transitions and effects tied to a single melded wav audio file. Does this compare similarly to the complexity of your test file? Or should that even be a factor? When melded to h264 this project comes out just fine. No synchronization issues at all. Great results. Melded to WMV however, it has drop outs (black screen and/or white flashes) and audio to video synchronization issues show up throughout.

Also, since you are seeing no issues with WMV results, it suggests to me that the problem may have more to do with my work station's capabilities or configuration than anything to do with the program's capabilities. Is a core i5/8gb/win7 64bit machine up to the task in the general sense for this? When previewing the project in VideoMeld the synchronization is never accurate. It views with fits and starts, so I must render the file to see the actual results. Anyone else have an opinion or similar/different experience here? Or am I the only user with such issues? (sokay, my ego can handle the truth) ;-)
cvw
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by cvw »

I have pulled the graphics card on this machine and have found interesting results running without it. The i5 processor handles video better without it. While still not getting the results you have with WMV files in 1080p, I am seeing no problems whatsoever in getting excellent WMV 720p results. The drop-outs are gone, and so are the synchronization issues in the video file, as well as the playback quality in the VM viewer being much smoother. The computer's performance assessment shows a .6 drop in the "Gaming Graphics" category, while all other categories remain the same, without the card. But, as we can see here, a lower rating in this area does not equate lower video processing performance.

This is good. And I appreciate your help. Next step here is to upgrade the pc to get the most out of the program...
GoldWave Inc.
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Re: Some observations and suggestions

Post by GoldWave Inc. »

Weak video drivers have been a huge problem for VideoMeld. New versions of VideoMeld now use software emulation by default instead of using the hardware drivers. That change alone has significantly reduced the number of problems reported.

Chris
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